Talk:Timeline of Pirates of the Caribbean series
... The Flying Dutchman is a mixture of ships that was used in the early 17th century. So I think that Calypso gave the Flying Dutchman to Davy Jones before 1650s. --89.172.235.233 09:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC) :How do we even know Calypso gave the Dutchman to Jones? Where is that stated? - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 10:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC) That's not important. Imporatant is that Davy Jones begin to sail on the Flying Dutchman before 1650. --89.172.197.82 13:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC) :Not necessarily. The Dutchman may have had previous captains, or else have already been an old ship by the time Jones used it - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 14:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC) Non-canon It's neccesary to mark this timeline as noncanon, because the most of the dates are fan-made estimations and not confirmed by any official or semi-offi´cial sources. El Chupacabra 06:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC) :The events themselves are canon, and the unofficial nature of the dates is noted in the introduction - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 15:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC) ::I admit that the page is a bit of a mess. I added the estimated dates not specifically to encourage fanon, but simply to have a "Year 0" from which other dates could be based. Perhaps it would be best just to return to "0" for Curse and tag all dates as "before" or "after"? - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 08:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC) :::It would be good, as now it's hard to distinguish between official dates and estimation. We should use AD dates if they are canon, otherwise prior/after CBP dates. El Chupacabra 12:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC) Exact date Now, since we know that Sumbhajee Angria was a real-world individual and died in 1743, and Rule Britannia was first preformed in august 1741, and DMC and AWE are set 1 year after CBP, we can assume that CBP must be set in 1741 and the other two movies in 1742. El Chupacabra 11:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC) :I have a source (will find and post here) that said that CotBP took place in 1726, mate. BlackPearl14Pirate Lord-ess 02:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC) ::Please post it, because this sounds totally unbelieveable. Are you sure that it's a canon source? El Chupacabra 14:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Automated transfer of Problem Report #9755 The following message was left by Anonymous via on 2008-05-18 22:16:35 UTC It is written here that jack Sparrow was born "C-40y", and then that he was employed by the East India Trading Company (and eventually branded a pirate) around "C-30y". That means that Jack was 10 years old when he worked for Beckett ? Doesn't make sense... Automated transfer of Problem Report #17012 The following message was left by Slam2813ssh via on 2009-01-03 04:03:11 UTC Isn't Will Turner's mother Arabella Smith, the childhood friend of Jack Sparrow? No. She isn't. Pirates 101 I don't think that this is still part of the continuity because the site disapeared, you should put other source that said anything about the story of jack working for Beckett. :Done! ;) It's not out yet, but Jack does work for Beckett in of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom|the newest POTC book. And remember in these "Talk pages", you need to put four of these at the end of your messages, like this: ~~~~ CJSFanBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 03:08, December 10, 2010 (UTC) Thank you for the information and sorry, i forgot to put that Adrianos-1995 20:16, December 10, 2010 (UTC) 1750 We know that Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides takes place in 1750... so then couldnt we sort it all out basing it on this date? Let's say At World's End happened in 1749, Dead Man's Chest and Pirates Online took place in 1748, Curse of the Black Pearl took place in 1747 and so on. XaviCommander 15:14, April 2, 2011 (UTC) :Well, see, the only issue with that is, we currently don't know how much time has passed between the end of AWE and OST. All we know is that OST happened several years from AWE(as it was stated in the OST Visual Guide). But since we don't know exactly how many years it's been, we must wait for when the time comes. Black Pearl,HMS Interceptor,Queen Anne's Revenge 17:36, April 2, 2011 (UTC) : :The first three are supossed to be set between 1720's-1750's. However, as CJSfan stated the visual guide also states that "several" years have past between AWE and OST, which could be anything from 2 up to 10 years(my personnal opinion) meaning if you wanted an exact date COTBP would take place in the 1740's. It depends on how well you value everything in the visual guide to be canon or take it to heart. Hopefully they state in the next films what year they've decided to write them in becuase the timeline needs updating. 03:32, June 18, 2011 (UTC) Dead Men Tell No Tales Unfortunately, the latest film in our beloved Pirates of the Caribbean series is creating a lot of confusion about the timeline, which now needs to be reexamined and corrected as soon as possible. Now, 1750 is the only absolutely confirmed year in the entire series. We know that thanks to the Pirate Execution sign which clearly says Gibbs' trial is held in the 23rd year of King George's reign. This King George is George II because he was introduced as George Augustus which was the full name of the historical George II. We also know 1750 was chosen by John Myhre as the year in which Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides is set. Now comes the problem. In Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales Hector Barbossa says the Black Pearl was shrunk by Blackbeard "five winters ago", which sets the film in 1755. However, since Henry Turner is 21 in DMTNT (Lewis McGowan is officially credited for playing HENRY TURNER (12 YRS OLD) at the beginning of movie and the rest of the events happen nine years later), many of the previous events will need to be pushed back. A lot! I'm open to suggestions.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 12:30, May 26, 2017 (UTC) :Henry being twenty one, and Barbossa's words in Dead Men Tell No Tales of "five winters ago" places Dead Men Tell No Tales in 1755. If Barbossa is correct, then Curse, Dead Man's Chest and World's End take place in the 1730s, not 40s as previously believed. This, in turn, means, by Henry's age that we get the following timeline. *1733 - Curse of the Black Pearl *1733 through to 1734 - Dead Man's Chest and At World's End (because there's a year and a few months between Curse and World's End) *Late 1734/early 1735 - Henry Turner is born. * 1744/early 1755 - Stinger at the end of World's End occurs and Will meets Henry for the first time; Henry is 9 years 3 months approx. * 1746/7 - Henry and Will meet again; Poseidon Trident conversation occurs. According to the Novel Henry is 12, meaning it's approx 2 years 9 months after World's End stinger. * 1750 - Stranger Tides occurs; as seen per the Pirate Execution Sign * 1755 - Dead Men Tell No Tales occurs. Any disagreements? --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 12:56, May 26, 2017 (UTC) ::That's all very close to my own calculations. ::DMTNT - 1755. Barbossa says the Pearl was shrunk by Blackbeard 'five winters ago'. ::OST - 1750. The Pirate Execution sign says Gibbs' trial is held in the 23rd year of King George II's reign. ::DMC & AWE - 1734. Henry Turner is 12 at the beginning of DMTNT and the rest of the film is set 9 years later, which means he's 21 in 1755 and had to be born in 1734. ::TCOTBP - 1733. A year before the events of DMC. ::But some other things need to cleared too. According to Jerry Bruckheimer, Jack Sparrow was 18 in the flashback scene in DMTNT. In The Price of Freedom Jack was 26 when Cutler Beckett burned the Wicked Wench. So, if Davy Jones raised the Wench 13 years before 1734 (DMC and AWE year), Jack was 26 in 1721. If Jack was 26 in 1721, that means he was born in 1695, which makes him 60 in DMTNT. If Jack was born in 1695, that means he trapped Salazar in the Devil's Triangle in 1713.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 13:24, May 26, 2017 (UTC) Well, there's one slight change: Henry could be born in 1735, depending on when in 1734 he's conceived. If he's a spring conception, then he's a winter of 1734 birth; if he's a summer baby - which, judging by the islands, seems to be true, then he's a 1735 spring baby. So, now, we have to decide - do we take actors' ages into account? If so, then Barbossa is in his sixties during DMTNT and Price of Freedom is incorrect about his age. If Price of Freedom is right and Barbossa is in his 40s when Jack turns 20 and if Jack is sixty in DMTNT, then Barbossa is in his mid eighties at the time. If we don't take actors ages into account and trust Price of Freedom then we have: * 1670 - 1674 - Barbossa, in his 40s when Jack is 20, is born. According to The Price of Freedom Barbossa is in his "early forties" when Jack is 20. 45 years and "mid forties" for Barbossa is 1669, placing his birth between 1670 and 1674. * 1695 - Jack Sparrow born. * 1707 - Approximate birth of Norrington. Norrington is already an adult, i.e 18, when Will washes up. * 1713 - Eighteen year old Jack Sparrow traps Salazar in Devil's Triangle (Salazar's flashback scene in DMTNT). Elizabeth and Will are born. According to the original draft of Curse Will and Elizabeth are twelve years old in the first scene, while both turned twenty in the main story taking place eight years later. * 1721 - The Price of Freedom occurs and The Wicked Wench is sunk. Jack makes a deal with Davy Jones to raise The Wicked Wench. He agrees to be Captain for thirteen years and then serve a century on board The Flying Dutchman. * 1723 - Barbossa leads a mutiny and becomes Captain of The Black Pearl. The crew are cursed by the treasure of Isla de Muerta; Bootstrap Bill disagrees with the mutiny, is tied to a cannon, and thrown to the bottom of the ocean. Where he remains until 1733. * 1725 - Will washes up on the Dauntless. * 1733 - Curse of the Black Pearl occurs and the cursed pirates are released from their curse; now mortal, Bootstrap Bill drowns to death and, when offered servitude by Davy Jones, takes it. Will and Elizabeth turn twenty. * 1733 through to 1734 - Dead Man's Chest and At World's End occur. There is a year and a few months between Curse and World's End * Late 1734/early 1735 - Henry Turner is born. Depending on when Henry is conceived, he is either a late 1734 birth or an early 1735 birth. Around this time, Carina is conceived. Carina seems to be about 20 in Dead Men Tells No Tales, making her birth around this date. * 1744/early 1745 - Stinger at the end of World's End occurs and Will meets Henry for the first time; Henry is 9 years 3 months approx. * 1746/7 - Henry and Will meet again; Poseidon Trident conversation occurs. According to the Novel Henry is 12, meaning it's approx 2 years 9 months after World's End stinger. * 1750 - Stranger Tides occurs. As seen per the Pirate Execution Sign. * 1755 - Dead Men Tell No Tales occurs. Barbossa says the Pearl, shrunk in Stranger Tides, was shrunk "five winters ago". Jack is sixty and Barbossa, between eighty one and eight four, dies. : All agreed?--HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 22:53, May 26, 2017 (UTC) : After reading through this, I just had to stop in and add this to the conversation. During Norrington's promotion ceremony (Played right before the scene where Elizabeth passes out and falls off Fort Charles and into the ocean), Handel's Concerto Grosso in B Minor HWV330is being played by the orchestra. That piece of music isn't published until 1740. So the orchestra is playing a piece of music 7 years early. I'm curious to what music was being played in Barbossa's cabin before he was interrupted. Before, we had a rough idea that POTC 1-3 took place during the 1740's giving plenty of room for OST to take place in 1750. --Johnny Goldtimbers 02:04, May 27, 2017 (UTC) : Good catch; I didn't notice that! It's just another problem we have to deal with in retrospect.--HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 03:04, May 27, 2017 (UTC) Unfortunately there's even more trouble with the new film. At Saint Martin, Jack is offered to be executed by "a new invention: the guillotine". The guillotine wasn't invented until around 1790. --GodKingReiss (talk) 03:56, May 27, 2017 (UTC) And, even more - the last woman to be executed for being a "witch" was in 1712 and even then it was an embarrassment. This film is set about forty five years later approximately.--HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 17:18, May 28, 2017 (UTC) :We just have to accept that this series is full of historical inaccuracies.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 20:08, May 28, 2017 (UTC) It's a completely alternate timeline. There's no EITC or magic or monsters or interconnected worlds in ours, so it's safe to say that these various elements caused their timeline to deviate from our own. The EITC itself is a likely consequence of such a deviation, as countries have been shown to reroute a great deal of resources when they happen upon something paranormal that might benefit them, like with the Fountain of Youth. It's possible that these various external factors caused countries to be a lot more competitive, and hence you have an aggressive EITC, an early guillotine, or continued witch-hunt practice. - Lord Midhav 02:06, May 29, 2017 (UTC) :We'll have to be satisfied with this explanation given by Ann C. Crispin: "The important thing to understand is that this is not our world. It’s an alternate universe. It’s not quite our world because magic works. In addition to undead pirates and Aztec curses, there are historical events that don’t add up. For example, in our world, Port Royal, Jamaica, was destroyed in 1692 by an earthquake, but it exists in the Pirates of the Caribbean universe." --Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 12:46, May 29, 2017 (UTC) :Speaking of which, are any elements of her story rendered non-canon by the backstory in DMTNT? IIRC Jack never sailed with the Wench as a pirate ship. - Lord Midhav 14:38, May 29, 2017 (UTC) ::Well, DMTNT does create a few problems (not only with TPoF but with DMC as well) but it seems there are solutions for all of them, if you spend a few hours banging your head against the wall. The flashback in DMTNT looks more like a reference to the Wicked Wench from the Ride than an attempt to connect Jack's present with Jack's past. It feels like Jeff Nathanson didn't even know about TPoF. Jack gets his compass from the dying captain of the Wicked Wench instead of from Tia Dalma who explicitly said in DMC that Jack bartered the compass from her. But it is possible that Jack bartered the compass from Tia Dalma for his captain (and BTW, actor Andreas Sobik is credited for portraying a character named Pirate Captain). It is possible that Jack lost the Wench between the events of the DMTNT flashback (where he is 18, according to Jerry Bruckheimer) and the events of TPoF, where he is 20 in the first part of the story. With a little imagination, everything can fit in the timeline, no matter how impossible that may seem.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 15:33, May 29, 2017 (UTC) ::Yeah, I read how the compass issue from DMC can be worked around, somewhere. And even the supposed curse being a contradiction to the fact that Jack had given away the compass to Beckett and Will, by assuming that betraying the compass meant giving it away entirely without assuming that it'll ever return to you. Let me just say that the whole compass subplot is the most idiotic thing to come from this movie. That and Scarfield's pointless arc. Any idea whether Shansa was aboard his ship? - Lord Midhav 13:21, May 30, 2017 (UTC) :::Yeah, I think the Triangle mystery was the weakest part of the movie. The place looked really creepy, and I liked that, but the curse really needs some serious explanations. As for Shansa, she decrypted the carvings on the wall of Carina's cell and that was it. When she told Scarfield where to sail the British didn't need her anymore.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 18:25, May 30, 2017 (UTC) :::The compass releasing your worst fears was stupid, but yeah, the Triangle should have been explained further. Why were the people there reanimated by what seemed to be hellfire? I was expecting some kind of reveal regarding that in the post-credits scene, like Shansa being the one pulling the strings, with Angelica coming to meet her for a team-up. What we got was even better tbh, but some explanation would have helped the movie. - Lord Midhav 02:25, May 31, 2017 (UTC) ::::So, we write out the timeline as from the 1730s to 1750s then? As for you saying it's an alternate timeline; probably true, however, there was an EITC in our universe. They went out of business in the 1760s (I think?). --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 09:52, May 31, 2017 (UTC) :::::Yes, we should change all the 1730s and 1740s into 1720s and 1730s.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 15:59, May 31, 2017 (UTC) :::::::The real world version is called just East India Company, has another flag and differs in many aspects from EITC. I think most of the time calculations are correct for this proposed timelines, and with that, both of timelines could be merged, still I´m thinking about eliabeth´s pregnancy period. :::::::If Henry is 10 in the WE post credits scene, 12 in the talk with Will and 21 in DMTNT main story (1755), he is 21 years old + 9 months in her mothers belly, so it could add +1 year from the time Will and Elizabeth made him: :::::* 1732 - Curse of the Black Pearl occurs and the cursed pirates are released from their curse; now mortal, Bootstrap Bill drowns to death and, when offered servitude by Davy Jones, takes it. Will and Elizabeth turn twenty. :::::* 1732 through to 1733 - Dead Man's Chest and At World's End occur. There is a year and a few months between Curse and World's End :::::* Late 1733/early 1734 - Henry Turner is born. Depending on when Henry is conceived, he is either a late 1734 birth or an early 1735 birth. Around this time, Carina is conceived. Carina seems to be about 20 in Dead Men Tells No Tales, making her birth around this date. :::::* 1744/early 1745 - Stinger at the end of World's End occurs and Will meets Henry for the first time; Henry is 9 years 3 months approx. :::::* 1746/7 - Henry and Will meet again; Poseidon Trident conversation occurs. According to the Novel Henry is 12, meaning it's approx 2 years 9 months after World's End stinger. :::::* 1750 - Stranger Tides occurs. As seen per the Pirate Execution Sign. :::::* 1755 - Dead Men Tell No Tales occurs. Barbossa says the Pearl, shrunk in Stranger Tides, was shrunk "five winters ago". Jack is sixty and Barbossa, between eighty one and eight four, dies. Ogatreal (talk) 16:10, May 31, 2017 (UTC) :::: There was an EEIC in our world, which was a front for the British Empire's initial stages of colonization in India from the 1600s till its zenith in the 1800s. They hardly had any influence outside of this country and maybe some other parts of South Asia, and definitely did not go out of their way to eradicate piracy, which was not such a burden on them. - Lord Midhav 17:11, May 31, 2017 (UTC) :::::We have a new problem. According to Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales: Movie Graphic Novel, the film is set in 1751.http://66sean99.livejournal.com/235476.html --Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 12:44, June 9, 2017 (UTC) :::::So, here's my new timeline. :::::1751 - DMTNT. As shown by the official comic adaptation. :::::1750 - OST The Pirate Execution sign says Gibbs' trial is held in the 23rd year of King George II's reign. :::::1749 - Will's second one day ashore. :::::1746 - Blackbeard traps the Pearl 'five winters' before the events of DMTNT. :::::1742 - Henry tells Will about the Trident. :::::1739 - Will's first one day ashore. :::::1730 - Henry Turner is born, nine months after the end of Beckett's war on piracy. :::::1729 - DMC & AWE :::::1728 - TCotBP :::::1720 - The Dauntless saves Will. :::::1718 - Barbossa's mutiny. :::::1716 - Davy Jones raises the Wicked Wench. :::::1708 - Jack traps Salazar in the Triangle. Will and Elizabeth are born. :::::1690 - Jack Sparrow is born. :::::What do you think?--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 10:48, June 10, 2017 (UTC) I can understand where most of this is coming from, but the main scratcher on my head is that Barbossa said five winters ago. That means DMTNT takes place shortly after OST (as stated above). However, I feel weird in thinking that such a short time had passed between Barbossa losing the Pearl, doing his research on Blackbeard AND becoming privateer in only 2-3 years. Not to mention amassing a fleet in under a year, though I guess that's what happens when he has the Sword of Triton. But I guess my main confusion is over the idea that Barbossa sails the Pearl before Blackbeard's attack, Jack's search for the Fountain of Youth...15 years in between AWE and pre-OST events! I know where we're coming from with the evidence...but this one is particularly disturbing. But I guess that's the curse of following all information, both official and non-official. -- [[User:J Fan|C'J'''S'Fan']]On Stranger Tides, ''Arkham City 18:16, June 15, 2017 (UTC) :That's what happens when an astronomer wants to become a horologist but forgets the donkey. Disney really needs someone who knows the heart and soul of this series and not just what everyone can see on the surface.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 20:51, June 15, 2017 (UTC) ::I'm pretty sure that Barbossa losing the Pearl "five winters ago" refers to the time between OST and DMTNT, as the latter was probably supposed to be released in 2016, five years after the former. The team behind DMTNT also didn't seem too concerned with continuity, so I doubt they would take the time to map out Blackbeard's attack in relation to OST. The sign confirming the date is a relatively small detail, so it was probably overlooked by whoever chose the year as 1751. -- Spaceblazer (talk) 18:55, September 11, 2017 (UTC) :::1750 was confirmed by John Myhre as the year in which the events of On Stranger Tides are set. 1751 was revealed in the Dead Men Tell No Tales comic book. Those are the official sources and we can't ignore them.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 19:11, September 11, 2017 (UTC) ::::Myhre explained that "we said 1750… and if it was a bit earlier, or just a hair later, maybe we’d do what was most fun for the storytelling, but we’re in that range, we’re saying mid-1700s." It sounds like the date wasn't set in stone. They probably just used it as a reference point, with the detail on the sign only being there for authenticity. It's awfully coincidental for DMTNT's production to have occurred "five winters" after OST's. -- Spaceblazer (talk) 21:12, September 11, 2017 (UTC) :::::The production years have nothing to do with the in-universe timeline. TCotBP was released in 2003 and DMC in 2006 but in-universe only one year has passed between the events of those two flms. The Pirate Execution sign sets OST in the "23rd year of His Majesty's Reign" and George II was crowned in 1727.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 06:50, September 12, 2017 (UTC) ::::::The amount of time between each film in the trilogy was set for narrative reasons, of which there are none to warrant setting DMTNT 1 year after OST. Even Joachim Rønning thought that many years had probably passed. Barbossa's line was likely thrown in to convey to the audience how much time had passed for the characters between films. Otherwise, it's pointless and only serves to create confusion. At the time of OST's production, the film was set in 1750, but Barbossa's line combined with the comic book date should make us question whether or not this was retconned. The dates don't have any problem coexisting (aside from Cotton's parrot surviving in a bottle for 4 years), but we should take them with a grain of salt, because the reason for the date in the comic's choosing and what the DMTNT crew's intentions were is unclear. -- Spaceblazer (talk) 17:26, September 12, 2017 (UTC) :::::::I don't know what the DMTNT crew's intentions were, but what they delivered is what counts. And they delivered a movie that says the Black Pearl was captured five years before the Quest for the Trident of Poseidon and a comic book that says the Quest for the Trident of Poseidon is set in 1751. None of them said anything about retconing the OST's setting. As for Rønning's statement, well, the lack of coordination between the screenwriter and the director is nothing new in Hollywood.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 18:18, September 12, 2017 (UTC) :::::::Please excuse me for my jumping-in in this discussion. I'm Gundolf60 from the German version of the Pirates Wiki. :::::::The graphic novel tells DMTNT ist set in 1751. The Pirate Execution sign says, OST is set in 1750. But nowhere is said, the capture of the Black Pearl is set in the same year as the events from OST. Therefore the Black Pearl may be captured 4 years before OST and released in DMTNT 5 years after the capture. Do you agree? Gundolf60 (talk) 21:02, September 18, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::Exactly. The Pirate Execution sign says OST is set in the "23rd year of His Majesty's Reign". Obviously, "His Majesty" is George Augustus, alias George II, who was crowned as King of Great Britain and Ireland in 1727. John Myhre further confirms that the film is set in 1750. The graphic novel says DMTNT is set in 1751. Barbossa says the Pearl was trapped by Blackbeard "five winters ago" which means the Pearl was shrunken in 1746.--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 21:30, September 18, 2017 (UTC) :Shiver me timbers! It seems the Heathen Gods are finally smiling upon me! Thanks to Captain Bool-Bool and her website, I discovered this calendar of Henry Turner's waiting for his father Will Turner. The calendar was made by the artist James "Jim" Carson, who also made some artworks for Dead Man's Chest and At World's End. As you can see here, the calendar and several other artworks were displayed in Henry's room at the beginning of Dead Men Tell No Tales. The calendar proves that my latest timeline calculation is correct. Will's first one day ashore was in 1739, and he was expected to return for another day ashore in 1749. Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me!--Uskok''Viceroy of the Indies'', ''Nemesis'' 16:46, March 9, 2018 (UTC)